inshore fisheries conservation authority

[Padsta Tel]

Thanks for attending Bill you have thought out some interesting questions I'm sure more people would have attended but due to work loads some of us couldent make it. Will make the effort for the next meeting please post the next one. But at the end of the day these issues will go ahead dispite our objections.

[Bill Bodger]

Thanks for attending Bill you have thought out some interesting questions I'm sure more people would have attended but due to work loads some of us couldent make it. Will make the effort for the next meeting please post the next one. But at the end of the day these issues will go ahead dispite our objections.

Some things may well go through Tel but they can be amended. If we are not more pro-active we cannot start complaining when our interests aren't served.

BB

[Rocket Ron]

Thanks for attending Bill you have thought out some interesting questions I'm sure more people would have attended but due to work loads some of us couldent make it. Will make the effort for the next meeting please post the next one. But at the end of the day these issues will go ahead dispite our objections.

Some things may well go through Tel but they can be amended. If we are not more pro-active we cannot start complaining when our interests aren't served.

BB

As frank says, the topics mentioned are still up for discussion and revision, including the Bass nursery area.
In my opinion, I repeat IMO the gas/brine issue will go ahead. It doesn't mean things can't be changed ie the location of the outlet. the rate at which brine is released and its concentration. whether the pipe should just dump in one location or if could be perforated and release smaller quantities over a larger area, and stringent monitoring of fish stock health in the area.
These are all questions that need addressing.
How long will brine be pumped out to sea? as far as I'm aware the brine is a waste product from the cutting out of the salt caverns with high pressure water jets, which when the gas containers/caverns are commissioned, will this be the end to pumping?
on another note, there has been no news yet that I'm aware of, about the rossall wall sea defence project designs. I was under the impression they would have been released by now for public consultation. This is a topic that affects many of us. If an unsuitable design is chosen here it will
affect the way we fish for decades.
Thankfully we do live in a democracy, and opinions DO matter. Politicians and councillors are voted in and would like to stay there!
RR

[Bill Bodger]

I can say for sure Ron, after reading the original planning application, that they are looking to liquid mine
the creation of caverns (up to a maximum of 36 to store up to 10 million standard cubic metres of natural gas each) So it is not going to be short lived. Also as you rightly say, it could very well go through if the politicians have the last say for economic reasons. However, there has been a catastrophic collapse of a previous mine albeit a dry mine. This may have some bearing on the decision.

My take on this whole situation is this. Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm still getting my head around all this stuff. The reason for this storage area is because we have to import our gas from Russia and the like. We have to pay extra for it because we are at the end of a very long pipeline. The storage enables gas to be bought at the lower price levels of summer. In theory this should reduce our gas prices. I suspect the reality will be higher profits for the gas companies. It is not, as some people would have us believe to do with storing gas gleaned through fracking. Just putting the whole shale debate out there now as well. They are two different and unrelated problems affecting the Fylde coastline.

BB

[Rushy]

I can say for sure Ron, after reading the original planning application, that they are looking to liquid mine
the creation of caverns (up to a maximum of 36 to store up to 10 million standard cubic metres of natural gas each) So it is not going to be short lived. Also as you rightly say, it could very well go through if the politicians have the last say for economic reasons. However, there has been a catastrophic collapse of a previous mine albeit a dry mine. This may have some bearing on the decision.

My take on this whole situation is this. Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm still getting my head around all this stuff. The reason for this storage area is because we have to import our gas from Russia and the like. We have to pay extra for it because we are at the end of a very long pipeline. The storage enables gas to be bought at the lower price levels of summer. In theory this should reduce our gas prices. I suspect the reality will be higher profits for the gas companies. It is not, as some people would have us believe to do with storing gas gleaned through fracking. Just putting the whole shale debate out there now as well. They are two different and unrelated problems affecting the Fylde coastline.

BB

You've summed up the situation pretty well there Frank because of the short sightedness of consecutive governments, we've had virtually nowhere to store our North Sea Gas. We've been selling it overseas, who then have been selling it back to us at vastly inflated prices! So in theory, creating vast caverns where gas can be stockpiled is a no brainer. However, as you've already pointed out, this probably won't result in a drop in gas prices for us the consumer, just greater profits for the gas companies.

What worries me slightly is the fact that IFCA's projections for the hoped for increase in marine life around the windfarms was so far off the mark, as the surrounding area is in their words "a barren desert". I just hope the Brine outfall doesn't throw up a similar conundrum. Once it's built and up & running, I fear it might prove difficult to shut down even if there is an environmental impact. Money talks and a gas storage scheme which stands to save millions, if not billions, of pounds would be looked on more favourably by the powers that be than the interests of a few mussellers and anglers.

Notwithstanding that argument, it's important our voices are heard. I've been doing a bit of light reading on the subject of Brine outfalls and their environmental impacts in the Arabian Gulf from their desalination plants. One of THE major factors of reducing impact is the length of the pipe used to discharge the wastewater, basically the further offshore, the better dispersal. Unfortunately, off the the end of Rossal is the Lune Deeps AND a proposed MCZ, so how they are going to get around that problem is unclear.

As Ron has pointed out, it is possible to release the Brine over a wide area through nozzles along the outfall pipe. However, continuously disposing of brines at a constant rate can result in unacceptably high salinity on both sides of the outfall. This is created due to the flow reversals of the flood and ebb of the tide dragging the Brine back towards the release point. Knowing the strong tide run of the Fylde coast as we do, this could result in a large localised area affected, especially if the pipe is not of sufficient length.
If the all else fails, and the pipeline is a done deal like Ron says, I think we should focus on making sure it's as far offshore as possible.

[Rocket Ron]

Would just like to put a few facts straight.
Most of our imported gas currently comes from Norway & Qatar.
The Russian pipeline was unreliable because of Russian/Ukraine disputes. It never directly supplied the UK
There is a new Russian pipeline supplying Germany and Europe via the Baltic.
This new pipeline ( Nord Stream pipeline) is under going negotiations with the Russians to come to the UK via a branch feed.
BP are the company involved in these deals.
There are a number of under and above ground storage facilities already in the Uk which are generally close to large cities and gas powered electric generation stations. These currently are used to feed the grid
at peak demand times when additional gas/electricity is required.
There is very limited back up, about 14 days worth should something happen to supplies to the UK.
The current storage projects will more than double this back up time.
These new storage sites are to future proof UK supplies so we are not left high and dry.
Any gas drilled mined fracked etc is currently pumped into the grid.
This gas will be drawn off the grid, compressed and stored in the new sites during times of low usage.
There has to be a public consultation period by law as part of the infrastructure planning commission's
approval, this in reality is more of a PR /information exercise, as they will have run scenarios/studies to
answer any question you are thinking of, even down to the percentage of wealthy professional, middle income, lower income people living in an affected area and how they will react!!!.
Told you that study was worth reading.... certainly opened my eyes.
These meetings will be most likely chaired, not by the construction company, but by some slick PR outfit specifically hired and fully briefed.
As for the gas companies that supply end product to us, IMO a set of thieves.
Strange every December the price increases (high use times) and April (low use ) it falls but by less than the increase, even though this is the same gas purchased 12 months previous at a fixed rate.
The caverns and pipe will go ahead, the details are still up for discussion and negotiation.
The pipe will extend about 1.25 miles out to sea off Rossall.
Would be nice to see some of their feasibility and environmental impact studies, but I fear they
may be classified
This information is simplistic but accurate to my knowledge and hope it serves to give
AA members a bit of insight into what is happening.
Liphook suggested The Angling Trust , (though not for me personally as I don't agree with things they do)
as a representative body. Have any members submitted there concerns to them.
I would like to see AA and the other concerned angling and Boating Clubs along with local affected
residents petition local Fylde and Lancashie CC councillors and politicians into some action regarding the
brine outfall or at least find out the findings of the impact study.
RR.

[Bill Bodger]

Thanks for that Ron It may have been simplistic but it gives a broad overview and background info to the unenlightened, myself included. I've tried to play catch up in understanding the ramifications of the whole scheme. It would appear I have not been thorough enough. I find all this stuff morbidly fascinating and enjoy the obviously knowledgeable input from yourself.

BB

[Rushy]

......... I would like to see AA and the other concerned angling and Boating Clubs along with local affected residents petition local Fylde and Lancashie CC councillors and politicians into some action regarding the brine outfall or at least find out the findings of the impact study.
RR.

Would you fancy co-ordinating this, if you have the time? It needs someone who knows what he's talking about and the wherewithal to articulate what is required.

[Bill Bodger]

......... I would like to see AA and the other concerned angling and Boating Clubs along with local affected residents petition local Fylde and Lancashie CC councillors and politicians into some action regarding the brine outfall or at least find out the findings of the impact study.
RR.

Would you fancy co-ordinating this, if you have the time? It needs someone who knows what he's talking about and the wherewithal to articulate what is required.

Hear,hear ( Not sure whether that is the correct spelling but you know what I mean) Ron is the perfect candidate for this. (If he has the time)

BB

[OliverJohn2030]

Thanks for a thorough and informative report of the proceedings on inshore fishing reels/rods